Nov 19 2008

Is CFEclipse Dead?

Posted by Mark Drew at 10:04 PM
25 comments - Categories: bolt | coldfusion | cfeclipse

This question has started to raise its head amongst various forums and I have been asked (and misquoted) that the CFEclipse Project will be discontinued now that "Bolt" has been announced.

I just want to clarify to everyone that this is not the case. I am absolutely looking forward to Bolt being released. It is a great step forwards for CFML developers out there. But what will happen to the CFEclipse project?

Bear in mind that CFEclipse isn't just an editor. There are other features that I personally (ok I built them, I should like them) like such as the CFUnit tests, the Frameworks Explorer, Snipex and Snippets and the Dictionary view. These plugins are part of the CFEclipse project but they can be used standalone with a bit of coding.

Also, think about how hard it is to get some developers to change their IDE. At the moment Bolt is in production and I am sure when it is released people will find some "quirks" that they are not used to and complain and switch back. Sometimes it requires a crowbar to separate a coder from their IDE.

Regardless, the CFEclipse project (and even the editor) will keep on going, at least it means that we will have choice. Homesite, Dreamweaver, CFEclipse and Bolt (and others like TextMate etc).

As with any ecosystem, they can live together, and be as individual as the developers that use them. CFEclipse will evolve and keep on going.

I salute the CF Team as they have (from opinions of people at MAX) produced an IDE that is obviously wowing the crowds! And who knows, I might even submit bug fixes to Bolt given the chance ;)

Comments

Barney wrote on 11/20/08 4:28 AM

You (and those before you) have done a fantastic job building a set of really nice plugins that integrate seamlessly into existing Eclipse infrastructure. That last point is the biggest hurdle I forsee for Bolt, at least judging by how horrendous FlexBuilder's integration is.

That said, any chance line numbers are going to start working in Ganymede? ;)

Mark Drew wrote on 11/20/08 4:47 AM

Barney,
check this entry out, that should get it working. This winter I shall go and fix a few bugs that have been, well, bugging me :)

http://trac.cfeclipse.org/cfeclipse/wiki/KnownIssues#Missinglinenumbers

rob wrote on 11/20/08 4:50 AM

Barney - there is a fix for that that involves creating a file in the .metadata folder and adding lineNumbers=true search around on google. I'll post a link on twitted when I am not on my iPhone. Line numbers and code insight work ok on G with the latest beta.

Jim Priest wrote on 11/20/08 8:16 AM

Sweet! I still have a job! :)

tony petruzzi wrote on 11/20/08 9:18 AM

if no one else is going to say it, then i will. personally i'm pretty pissed off at adobe for developing bolt and not embracing cfeclipse as the official cf ide. you've done an outstanding job on cfeclipse and for adobe not standing behind and supporting all these years and then creating their own ide is just plain wrong and a waste to time.

i don't see the point why they wasted their resources developing an ide from the ground up when they could of taken those people and put them behind cfeclipse. just doesn't make sense to me.

i know adobe is a company and they're out just to make money, but come on man, support the community behind your product.

what loyalty do we have to keep using adobe's cf once railo goes open source? where were our "community evangelists" during these meetings when it was decided to start developing bolt? didn't any of them even mention cfeclipse to the powers that be?

i know i'm ranting, but i haven't felt a "connection" with the mothership since adobe bought macromedia. i feel that out "community" is look down upon and laughed at.

it's just down right depressing.

Matt Woodward wrote on 11/20/08 9:57 AM

Fantastic to hear that CFEclipse will keep going and as always, if there's anything I can do to help with the project--mindless grunt work, Jack Daniels money, whatever--just say the word.

I personally think it's VERY important that there is an excellent free CFML editor available, and one to which the community can contribute language libraries for OpenBD and Railo will only be more important moving forward.

Mark Drew wrote on 11/20/08 10:16 AM

@tony: lets get some things straight (now that I have got some confirmation back that I can indeed talk about it).
Adobe are developing Bolt to a commercial level application, I can't talk about the exact implementation details but I know it will be a pretty robust product. I have been 'consulting' at stages in its development and if you saw the code behind CFEclipse, there are now better ways to implement that kind of functionality and I think Adobe have taken the right step in starting with a clean slate.

As I said I can't mention implementation details but they are definitely not wasting their time... I think they have done a stunning job in the short time that they have been developing it and I for one am very excited to see how it comes out.

As for it being a commercial application, well I think that is good too! Why? Do you know how stupid I have felt after signing various documents as a supplier to have to send an invoice for $0 or £0 pounds so that a company can use CFEclipse as a standard bit of software? Honestly!

With regards to "loyalty". Well, the Community Evangelist was there. I was. And with regards to different engines that is to do with features and other things, not the editor itself. And the powers that be DO know full well about CFEclipse. They have made the right choice in MY option (and that tells you something doesn't it?)

Don't be depressed, look at the code-name for the product, "Bolt". Back to Allaire days! I might even get a Lightening Bolt and Fist tattoo in celebration!

P.S. if anyone has a large version of this icon I would much appreciate it! The tattooist needs good quality to work from :D

Christian Ready wrote on 11/20/08 10:24 AM

@Matt, I concur. I would be surprised if Bolt supported anything other than CF only.

@Tony, I concur as well. At CFUnited 2006, didn't they announce that they were supporting CFEclipse? And why not at the very least ask Mark Drew to work on the project with them? All the lessons he learned could have been built into Bolt. As such, not only does this send a bad message to the community, but it also means that Bolt may not reach its potential as quickly as it could with Mark's expertise. Oh well, at least Mark is still supporting us!

Christian Ready wrote on 11/20/08 10:26 AM

Mark, I was writing my comment at the same time as you were writing yours. I am happy to stand corrected on my concerns and *very* happy that you were in the mix on this!

Jason Delmore wrote on 11/20/08 10:58 AM

Mark has done an unbelievable job with the CFEclipse project and we are all very thankful for his continued commitment to the community. Mark has been, and will continue to be involved with Bolt. There are even some features of Bolt that we currently plan on leveraging the CFEclipse codebase for (such as snippets). To say we started from scratch would be very inaccurate. We have very good relationships with several open source projects. There is no reason to look at this as a competition, but rather a partnership to provide the best possible solutions for the ColdFusion community. We will continue to work with Mark, and provide resources, money, and code to the CFEclipse project where appropriate. We are investing a lot into Bolt and I believe you will all be impressed and happy with what we have come up with.

Best wishes and thanks again Mark!
Jason

Larry C. Lyons wrote on 11/20/08 11:05 AM

Mark,

Let me check around, I may still have some temporary lightning bold and fist tattoos that were passed around at CFUnderground a few years ago. If so I'll be glad to send a couple along.

larry

Jim Priest wrote on 11/20/08 11:05 AM

Hey. You can't just take the code :) You have to trade us something! Like ORM whatever-it's-called. If that's not doable a Bolt t-shirt will be fine (XL please!)

Henry Ho wrote on 11/20/08 2:24 PM

Hum.. does Bolt have Snipex? I would miss that feature very much.

Robert Myers wrote on 11/20/08 4:19 PM

Mark, go work for Aptana! Please bring CF to their IDE.

Mark Drew wrote on 11/20/08 4:23 PM

@Henry: Who knows? Depends what features make it to the final version.

@Robert: I might have a job that I like already! :)

I still think people moan to much about the cost of software. If you are using a tool all day that is making you money... pay for it.

Yves wrote on 11/20/08 8:06 PM

Mark, I'm very happy to hear that CFEclipse will continue.

I remember using a couple of version of CFStudio way back.. and then when I figured it was time for change.. it felt like the desert in Dreamweaver.... until I came upon CFEclipse. Which I've used for quite some time.

Choice is an important thing... I always believe in looking at the choices available and will surely look at what Bolt brings... but I think the choice CFEclipse has given us has been second to none.

It continues to live on my Dell laptop and my macbook... quite happily.

denny wrote on 11/21/08 12:35 AM

T-Shirts are cool and all, but I'd rather have some code, personally (it's a lot less fuss sharing code than sharing clothes). =]p

bill shelton wrote on 11/23/08 6:51 AM

CFEclipse is, and has been, the best CFML editor available - thanks Mark. I think there will always need to be "free/open" and paid versions of editors available in order to (1) help bring new CF programmers on board so they don't have to buy and ide, and (2) to support those organizations and developers who do not want to or cannot purchase sophisticated tooling.

As @Jason mentioned, and as Adobe said at Max in their open source talks, Adobe works cooperatively with the open source community. So, I would hope that some of the features in Bolt will find their way back into CFEclipse.

bill

Jose Galdamez wrote on 11/30/08 8:14 AM

FWIW, I still use Dreamweaver for features that CFEclipse can't (and should never have to) support. I keep CFEclipse as my main IDE, and will continue to do so for a long time. Mark, your work and time is appreciated. Believe me, you earn the applause when you walk into the room.

Jose

Russ Michaels wrote on 12/08/08 6:46 PM

I think Adobe may be playing catch-up with cfeclipse for a while. Personally I do not really see any advantage with a commercial product. Homesite and Dreamweaver are commercial products, but you still have to get support from the community unless you are prepared to spend $500 to call Adobe.

If you need old CF logos Mark give me a shout, I have loads of old fist related images kicking about. Plus the Captain ColdFusion character I did for cfdeveloper.

Reinhard Jung wrote on 01/22/09 5:53 AM

I hope that cfEclipse will stay alive!

Mark Drew wrote on 01/22/09 6:13 AM

I am sure it will continue on regardless ;) Look at IE 6, that is harder to kill than the baddie at the end of Resident Evil 2

Larry C. Lyons wrote on 01/22/09 8:40 AM

Or IE 5 for the Mac. I'm still getting visitors using that um browser. its worse than a movie vampire. It never dies.

Kevin Benore wrote on 03/05/09 10:45 AM

@Mark: I have noticed no blogging about CFEclipse lately. Any news? Are you still working on it?

Also, I have been using Eclipse 3.3 for awhile with CFEclipse 1.3.1.6 - because it has been very stable. I was looking at upgrading to Eclipse 3.4, but saw the note about some compatibility issues with CFEclipse. Does the latest cutting edge fix these or am I better of sticking with 3.3 for stability?

Jim Priest wrote on 03/05/09 11:00 AM

Kevin - CFEclipse is fairly stable on 3.4 - I use it every day. I'd encourage you to join the CFEclipse mailing list and hopefully we can assist you with sorting out any issues. http://cfeclipse.org/support.cfm

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Is CFEclipse Dead?

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