Is CFEclipse Dead?

November 20, 2008 ·

This question has started to raise its head amongst various forums and I have been asked (and misquoted) that the CFEclipse Project will be discontinued now that "Bolt" has been announced.

I just want to clarify to everyone that this is not the case. I am absolutely looking forward to Bolt being released. It is a great step forwards for CFML developers out there. But what will happen to the CFEclipse project?

Bear in mind that CFEclipse isn't just an editor. There are other features that I personally (ok I built them, I should like them) like such as the CFUnit tests, the Frameworks Explorer, Snipex and Snippets and the Dictionary view. These plugins are part of the CFEclipse project but they can be used standalone with a bit of coding.

Also, think about how hard it is to get some developers to change their IDE. At the moment Bolt is in production and I am sure when it is released people will find some "quirks" that they are not used to and complain and switch back. Sometimes it requires a crowbar to separate a coder from their IDE.

Regardless, the CFEclipse project (and even the editor) will keep on going, at least it means that we will have choice. Homesite, Dreamweaver, CFEclipse and Bolt (and others like TextMate etc).

As with any ecosystem, they can live together, and be as individual as the developers that use them. CFEclipse will evolve and keep on going.

I salute the CF Team as they have (from opinions of people at MAX) produced an IDE that is obviously wowing the crowds! And who knows, I might even submit bug fixes to Bolt given the chance ;)

Tags: cfeclipse · coldfusion

45 responses

1 Barney // Nov 20, 2008 at 9:28 AM

You (and those before you) have done a fantastic job building a set of really nice plugins that integrate seamlessly into existing Eclipse infrastructure. That last point is the biggest hurdle I forsee for Bolt, at least judging by how horrendous FlexBuilder's integration is.

That said, any chance line numbers are going to start working in Ganymede? ;)
2 Mark Drew // Nov 20, 2008 at 9:47 AM

Barney,
check this entry out, that should get it working. This winter I shall go and fix a few bugs that have been, well, bugging me :)

http://trac.cfeclipse.org/cfeclipse/wiki/KnownIssues#Missinglinenumbers
3 rob // Nov 20, 2008 at 9:50 AM

Barney - there is a fix for that that involves creating a file in the .metadata folder and adding lineNumbers=true search around on google. I'll post a link on twitted when I am not on my iPhone. Line numbers and code insight work ok on G with the latest beta.
4 Jim Priest // Nov 20, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Sweet! I still have a job! :)
5 tony petruzzi // Nov 20, 2008 at 2:18 PM

if no one else is going to say it, then i will. personally i'm pretty pissed off at adobe for developing bolt and not embracing cfeclipse as the official cf ide. you've done an outstanding job on cfeclipse and for adobe not standing behind and supporting all these years and then creating their own ide is just plain wrong and a waste to time.

i don't see the point why they wasted their resources developing an ide from the ground up when they could of taken those people and put them behind cfeclipse. just doesn't make sense to me.

i know adobe is a company and they're out just to make money, but come on man, support the community behind your product.

what loyalty do we have to keep using adobe's cf once railo goes open source? where were our "community evangelists" during these meetings when it was decided to start developing bolt? didn't any of them even mention cfeclipse to the powers that be?

i know i'm ranting, but i haven't felt a "connection" with the mothership since adobe bought macromedia. i feel that out "community" is look down upon and laughed at.

it's just down right depressing.
6 Matt Woodward // Nov 20, 2008 at 2:57 PM

Fantastic to hear that CFEclipse will keep going and as always, if there's anything I can do to help with the project--mindless grunt work, Jack Daniels money, whatever--just say the word.

I personally think it's VERY important that there is an excellent free CFML editor available, and one to which the community can contribute language libraries for OpenBD and Railo will only be more important moving forward.
7 Mark Drew // Nov 20, 2008 at 3:16 PM

@tony: lets get some things straight (now that I have got some confirmation back that I can indeed talk about it).
Adobe are developing Bolt to a commercial level application, I can't talk about the exact implementation details but I know it will be a pretty robust product. I have been 'consulting' at stages in its development and if you saw the code behind CFEclipse, there are now better ways to implement that kind of functionality and I think Adobe have taken the right step in starting with a clean slate.

As I said I can't mention implementation details but they are definitely not wasting their time... I think they have done a stunning job in the short time that they have been developing it and I for one am very excited to see how it comes out.

As for it being a commercial application, well I think that is good too! Why? Do you know how stupid I have felt after signing various documents as a supplier to have to send an invoice for $0 or £0 pounds so that a company can use CFEclipse as a standard bit of software? Honestly!

With regards to "loyalty". Well, the Community Evangelist was there. I was. And with regards to different engines that is to do with features and other things, not the editor itself. And the powers that be DO know full well about CFEclipse. They have made the right choice in MY option (and that tells you something doesn't it?)

Don't be depressed, look at the code-name for the product, "Bolt". Back to Allaire days! I might even get a Lightening Bolt and Fist tattoo in celebration!

P.S. if anyone has a large version of this icon I would much appreciate it! The tattooist needs good quality to work from :D
8 Christian Ready // Nov 20, 2008 at 3:24 PM

@Matt, I concur. I would be surprised if Bolt supported anything other than CF only.

@Tony, I concur as well. At CFUnited 2006, didn't they announce that they were supporting CFEclipse? And why not at the very least ask Mark Drew to work on the project with them? All the lessons he learned could have been built into Bolt. As such, not only does this send a bad message to the community, but it also means that Bolt may not reach its potential as quickly as it could with Mark's expertise. Oh well, at least Mark is still supporting us!
9 Christian Ready // Nov 20, 2008 at 3:26 PM

Mark, I was writing my comment at the same time as you were writing yours. I am happy to stand corrected on my concerns and *very* happy that you were in the mix on this!
10 Jason Delmore // Nov 20, 2008 at 3:58 PM

Mark has done an unbelievable job with the CFEclipse project and we are all very thankful for his continued commitment to the community. Mark has been, and will continue to be involved with Bolt. There are even some features of Bolt that we currently plan on leveraging the CFEclipse codebase for (such as snippets). To say we started from scratch would be very inaccurate. We have very good relationships with several open source projects. There is no reason to look at this as a competition, but rather a partnership to provide the best possible solutions for the ColdFusion community. We will continue to work with Mark, and provide resources, money, and code to the CFEclipse project where appropriate. We are investing a lot into Bolt and I believe you will all be impressed and happy with what we have come up with.

Best wishes and thanks again Mark!
Jason
11 Larry C. Lyons // Nov 20, 2008 at 4:05 PM

Mark,

Let me check around, I may still have some temporary lightning bold and fist tattoos that were passed around at CFUnderground a few years ago. If so I'll be glad to send a couple along.

larry
12 Jim Priest // Nov 20, 2008 at 4:05 PM

Hey. You can't just take the code :) You have to trade us something! Like ORM whatever-it's-called. If that's not doable a Bolt t-shirt will be fine (XL please!)
13 Henry Ho // Nov 20, 2008 at 7:24 PM

Hum.. does Bolt have Snipex? I would miss that feature very much.
14 Robert Myers // Nov 20, 2008 at 9:19 PM

Mark, go work for Aptana! Please bring CF to their IDE.
15 Mark Drew // Nov 20, 2008 at 9:23 PM

@Henry: Who knows? Depends what features make it to the final version.

@Robert: I might have a job that I like already! :)

I still think people moan to much about the cost of software. If you are using a tool all day that is making you money... pay for it.
16 Yves // Nov 21, 2008 at 1:06 AM

Mark, I'm very happy to hear that CFEclipse will continue.

I remember using a couple of version of CFStudio way back.. and then when I figured it was time for change.. it felt like the desert in Dreamweaver.... until I came upon CFEclipse. Which I've used for quite some time.

Choice is an important thing... I always believe in looking at the choices available and will surely look at what Bolt brings... but I think the choice CFEclipse has given us has been second to none.

It continues to live on my Dell laptop and my macbook... quite happily.
17 denny // Nov 21, 2008 at 5:35 AM

T-Shirts are cool and all, but I'd rather have some code, personally (it's a lot less fuss sharing code than sharing clothes). =]p
18 bill shelton // Nov 23, 2008 at 11:51 AM

CFEclipse is, and has been, the best CFML editor available - thanks Mark. I think there will always need to be "free/open" and paid versions of editors available in order to (1) help bring new CF programmers on board so they don't have to buy and ide, and (2) to support those organizations and developers who do not want to or cannot purchase sophisticated tooling.

As @Jason mentioned, and as Adobe said at Max in their open source talks, Adobe works cooperatively with the open source community. So, I would hope that some of the features in Bolt will find their way back into CFEclipse.

bill
19 Jose Galdamez // Nov 30, 2008 at 1:14 PM

FWIW, I still use Dreamweaver for features that CFEclipse can't (and should never have to) support. I keep CFEclipse as my main IDE, and will continue to do so for a long time. Mark, your work and time is appreciated. Believe me, you earn the applause when you walk into the room.

Jose
20 Russ Michaels // Dec 8, 2008 at 11:46 PM

I think Adobe may be playing catch-up with cfeclipse for a while. Personally I do not really see any advantage with a commercial product. Homesite and Dreamweaver are commercial products, but you still have to get support from the community unless you are prepared to spend $500 to call Adobe.

If you need old CF logos Mark give me a shout, I have loads of old fist related images kicking about. Plus the Captain ColdFusion character I did for cfdeveloper.
21 Reinhard Jung // Jan 22, 2009 at 10:53 AM

I hope that cfEclipse will stay alive!
22 Mark Drew // Jan 22, 2009 at 11:13 AM

I am sure it will continue on regardless ;) Look at IE 6, that is harder to kill than the baddie at the end of Resident Evil 2
23 Larry C. Lyons // Jan 22, 2009 at 1:40 PM

Or IE 5 for the Mac. I'm still getting visitors using that um browser. its worse than a movie vampire. It never dies.
24 Kevin Benore // Mar 5, 2009 at 3:45 PM

@Mark: I have noticed no blogging about CFEclipse lately. Any news? Are you still working on it?

Also, I have been using Eclipse 3.3 for awhile with CFEclipse 1.3.1.6 - because it has been very stable. I was looking at upgrading to Eclipse 3.4, but saw the note about some compatibility issues with CFEclipse. Does the latest cutting edge fix these or am I better of sticking with 3.3 for stability?
25 Jim Priest // Mar 5, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Kevin - CFEclipse is fairly stable on 3.4 - I use it every day. I'd encourage you to join the CFEclipse mailing list and hopefully we can assist you with sorting out any issues. http://cfeclipse.org/support.cfm
26 CM // Aug 18, 2009 at 8:31 PM

Is Adobe working on/releasing a new IDE really warrant such harsh comments(@Tony)? I mean come on people - we are programmers, we learn to adapt to change every single day, and those that think just because a company develops a new editor for the betterment of the industry is somehow not 'embracing CFEclipse' is simply childish. This is a business, and Eclipse isn't the end-all of IDEs. In fact, the shortcomings are the reason I don't use Eclipse and still use Dreamweaver. I realize it lacks a couple features (debugging) that Eclipse offers, but it also contains many more important features out of the box than Eclipse does (granted, you could sift through endless plug-ins and hopefully find something suitable, but that is not the ideal way of working in my opinion - I actually hate it - why can't someone figure out how to build a stand-alone version of Eclipse with all the plug-ins already available/installed? This would change the way I look at it).

Everything I need to develop, deploy, and maintain an enterprise level web application is contained right there in Dreamweaver. I don't have to talk to a community to figure out who developed the best RDS plug-in, or talk to someone about the best database schema viewer - these are all included - and work nicely. I don't have to update individual plug-ins, and then redeploy them if I upgrade to a new version of the IDE - very frustrating items when the bottom line is production.

I know this will probably piss some people off, but that sounds pretty easy to do. Main thing - ADAPT AND CONQUER.
27 Snake // Aug 18, 2009 at 8:45 PM

Well so far CFbuilder does look quite nice, all the RDS stuff seems to work out of the box.
The only annoyance I have found so far is the auto prompt inside javascript blocks, it just wont shut up and keeps prompting me on everu word I type.
28 Kral // Sep 30, 2009 at 7:57 AM

I also hope that cfEclipse will stay alive!
29 Baz // Oct 21, 2009 at 3:12 AM

@CM If you want a clean and complete install of Eclipse for Coldfusion development that includes:

- Eclipse 3.5 (clean, with minimal Java tools)
- CFEclipse
- Subersive (Subversion (SVN) client)
- SQL Explorer (databases)
- Web Standard Toolkit (WST for html, javascript, xml, etc.)
- ANT

Try this: http://ondemand.yoxos.com/geteclipse/rap?profiles=868129468_125407604258536490

I too see a bright future for CFEclipse, especially when talking about Railo or OpenBD since none of the integration/debugging/RDS stuff works - making CFEclipse barely any different. My experience with the beta has been good, but not really worth a couple of hundred bucks (given that I'm not really using the integration stuff).

There will always be commercial software and their free open source equivalents and each have their place in the market. I don't see CFEclipse dying anytime soon, and I hope active development will continue forever!

Long Live!
30 kral oyun // Oct 24, 2009 at 7:20 AM

sure it will continue on regardless ;) Look at IE 6, that is harder to kill than the baddie at the end of Resident Evil 2
31 Baz // Oct 26, 2009 at 12:02 AM

I really hope cfeclipse never gains the notorious status of IE6! That's been a sore in my ass since the day it was released - whereas cfeclipse is a godsend. I still stand by that there will be more than enough demand for a non $200+ cfml ide, and I hope that someone with the right knowledge picks it back up and actively develops it.
32 Teacher Community // Jan 19, 2010 at 5:23 AM

All you have to do is answer the question posed during Episode 3 of the CFDocs podcast and send your answers to podcast at ukcfug.org
33 Kevin Benore // Jan 19, 2010 at 3:38 PM

@Teacher Community ... that was vague.

@Everyone else ... obviously CFEclipse is alive and kicking (as anyone who belongs to the list can attest too). However, I think Mark's involvement may have waned. At least his publicly speaking about the product on this blog ... since this was the last entry 14 months ago!
34 Mark Drew // Jan 19, 2010 at 3:48 PM

I also haven't been blogging as much, I tend to do much more twittering than anything else.

As for it being dead, there is a hardcore group of people working on the next version currently. I haven't had much time to dedicate to it because of other commitments. but I am keeping an eye on the project and working on some related functionality as well as doing some experiments, when they come to fruition I shall let everyone know of course :)
35 Kevin Benore // Jan 19, 2010 at 4:10 PM

@Mark Drew

I hope you did not think I was suggesting that you went away, I know your responsibilities at Railo must take up a lot of time.

I would just like to suggest that a CFEclipse centric blog or even a twitter feed (perhaps on that CFEclipse site) would have a wide audience. Twitter's good for short messages and a blog for more detail. But it seems like the communication channel for that product could be improved on the public front. The lists are fantastic, but that group is a smaller subset of those who could visit the CFEclipse site. Just a thought. Perhaps you could delegate the communication piece. Regards, I don't think I am the only one always hungry for more information. :)
36 Jim Priest // Jan 19, 2010 at 4:34 PM

I'm working on a new CFEclipse.org site and it will have a 'news/blog' section and I'm hoping I can give a few of the more active developers access to that section so they can keep people updated...
37 Kevin Benore // Jan 19, 2010 at 4:41 PM

Good to know that you are way ahead of me! Thanks Jim.
38 Jordan Walker // Jan 23, 2010 at 2:18 AM

From what I saw, Adobe Coldfusion Builder does not support any version of a 64-bit Linux flavor?
39 ben 10 oyunlar? // Feb 12, 2010 at 6:50 PM

did have a math error that has now been fixed; the bug could cause long posts to be truncated if using a non-classed
40 Danny Armstrong // Apr 1, 2010 at 7:29 PM

Bolt is great but they left Linux devs out in the cold. Not an option. CFEclipse to the rescue, again.

With that: Debugger, debugger, debugger. If I have to write one more cfdump tag I'm going to start donating money to Wal-Mart (just, you know, while I'm doing stupid things).

Is adobe going to continue to support the standalone debugger, even now that it is rolled into Bolt? Does that debugger work with Railo?
41 Mark Drew // Apr 1, 2010 at 7:43 PM

Have you tried Fusion Debugger? That runs with Railo (and it runs REALLY REALLY fast!)

I don't know if they will support the standalone version, but I know it doesn't work with Railo as they use RDS. RDS is a proprietary technology if Adobe so we can't implement it unfortunately.
42 Gary Herman // Apr 13, 2010 at 7:41 AM

CFEclipse is awesome and while CFBuilder is a nice addition to the available toolsets, CFEclipse is still my tool of choice. I'm grateful that we have options - thanks for all the hard work on this awesome tool.
43 oyunlar // Jun 25, 2010 at 2:21 PM

Barney - there is a fix for that that involves creating a file in the .metadata folder and adding lineNumbers=true search around on google. I'll post a link on twitted when I am not on my iPhone. Line numbers and code insight work ok on G with the latest beta.
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Mark Drew (Redux)- cf_etc...

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